he had access to education. he could have stayed in his community, but he saw -- he started to see himself as an african, not just as a hoso, he started to see himself and see how the white regime was dividing people by stressing ethnic differences and he was able to overcome that. i think that's such an extraordinary thing. >> it's true. it's true. he was a courageous human being and full of the idea that he was on a journey, and he had something to do, he had a place to be, and it's fabulous to realize that there's an old spiritual, old gospel song which is i'm on my journey now, mount zion, on my journey now, mount zion, and i wouldn't take nothing, mount zion, from my journey. mount zion. he was on the journey and he knew it and he had something to do. and this is what each of us has, if we have enough courage, we can say i'm on a journey, i have a charge to keep. >> you were living in cairo with your husband, south african freedom fighter when you first met nelson mandela. i understand your husband and mand